I finally found this picture on the internet. Once I saw it, it was clear what you were trying to tell me what to do. Maybe Rand can figure out how to post the picture for other stitchers. Here is the address: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.artsanddesigns.com%2Fimages%2Fglossary%2Fembroidery%2Fhollie_point.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.artsanddesigns.com%2Fglossary%2FN&docid=RxfugYWnpKGJkM&tbnid=YVqRF9Wy6wzP8M%3A&vet=1&w=363&h=191&hl=en&gsawvi=1&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim